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And I have been happy to fulfill them and happy to invite them. Chairman Leahy. As my last question, in some of the testament this early morning there has actually been a tip that, of training course, simply with all the hundreds of billions, trillions of dollars prepared to invest, you should just go somewhere else.

Stenger. I would tell you that in this environment the capability to elevate capital for the important things we are doing would have-- it is difficult to do so in a manner that would certainly allow us as efficiently and as promptly produce the points we have done. You can borrow money if you have obtained 50 percent down.


I can have borrowed fifty percent of that if I had the $12 million in cash to set up. Everybody understands that, yes, financial institutions have cash to finance as long as you have obtained fifty percent of it in your pocket prior to you ask for the other half. That is not how business works these days.

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Legislator Grassley. Legislator Grassley. I want to admit that we just have anecdotal info, but I would certainly like to ask you to what level you have to go or do go to make sure that the facilities make sure that the financial investments do not develop tasks for people right here unlawfully.


Mr. Stenger. We have actually worked with-- as I claimed, at the Optimal we had 550 building and construction employees on our task.


They are made up of 10, 15, 20, 30 staff members. They are profiting straight from the financial investment. I recognize the employees, I recognize their family members, and we have actually been able to use-- through these last 3 years of terrible economic turmoil, we have been able to use practically every building employee in our area and the surrounding regions.

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They are spent in the areas, and they are all U.S. workers. Legislator Grassley. Mr. Stenger.


Thanks. Mr. North, along the exact same lines of the question I asked him, has your research revealed examples various other-- and I only gave one instance, so I wish to admit that and be liable concerning it-- of facilities working with undocumented people? Mr. North. That kind of information is very hard to obtain from USCIS, and I must state that what we do find out about most of the interior features of that firm regarding this program is concerned associates with instances in which the team has actually said no to an application of some kind and then the regional center or the specific business owner has mosted likely to the Administrative Appeals Office-- which belongs to the company-- and there we get papers, we get a hearing officer telling us what is taking place because specific instance.




This is a negative application." So there is an amount of negative applications out there, however just when that process obtains before an administrative legislation court do we see much in the method of detail. Now, there was one case that you mentioned, and allow me just clarify on that particular a bit.

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Do not take as well long since I intend to ask one more couple questions. However go on and swiftly surface. Mr. North. The dairy products ranch had actually claimed 17 employees, and they obtained right into it, and the judge located that 16 of them were illegals. Now, that is the one instance I have, and it is an example.


Okay. I am going to ask separate questions of each of the 3 of you, however it takes care of this problem. As I said in my opening declaration, I am concerned about the potential technicality that allows financiers to withdraw their investment in regional facilities after receiving their permit.


Divine, are you aware of any instances in which a financier took out the financial investment and left quickly after getting an eco-friendly card? And if you are, or if you think it is a trouble, do you assume that it is a loophole that should be shut? Mr. Divine. I would certainly claim that most of the financiers, if you inquired what are their objectives, they would claim, "I intend to obtain an eco-friendly card, and I desire to keep it.

If I put my money in a hotel development-- Legislator Grassley. Can I think then that you are stating that there does not require to be any kind of adjustments made in that respect? Mr. Divine. I do not believe so. Legislator Grassley. Okay. Let me ask Mr. Stenger, is it typical for a financier in your experience to withdraw his/her investment right away after getting an eco-friendly card? Mr.

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Legislator, no. Our programs require that the financier be invested for a minimum of 5 years and be paid back just if the service is in a placement to do so at the end of that time. We have the benefit of the funding to create the service, obtain it running, make here it effective, assure that the jobs will be created and kept, and then only if the service is effective will certainly there be an exit strategy for the financier.